@UTF8 @Begin @Languages: en @Participants: SSG Subject, SLH Subject, SGM Subject, SSL Subject, SX4 Subject, SAN ShowHost @ID: en|guillot|SSG|||2NE||Subject|2FH Second Year French Honours Student pre-year abroad| @ID: en|guillot|SLH|||2NE||Subject|2FH Second Year French Honours Student pre-year abroad| @ID: en|guillot|SGM|||2NE||Subject|2FH Second Year French Honours Student pre-year abroad| @ID: en|guillot|SSL|||2NE||Subject|2FH Second Year French Honours Student pre-year abroad| @ID: en|guillot|SX4|||2NE||Subject|| @ID: en|guillot|SAN|||||ShowHost|| @Coder: Marie-Noƫlle Guillot converter MMT *SAN: ok we're here today to talk about erm: (.) smoking and whether c(cigarette) er the ci(cigarette) cigarette adverts should be (.) allowed I mean at the moment we're we're not allowed cigarettes to be (.) erm 'publicised sort of advertised on TV but we we do still get billboard advert(advertisements) advertisements and (.) I suppose su(subtle) subtle TV (.) (.) t(tx) erm advertisements so we're just here to talk about that on: 'against it we have (.) (.) SSL SSL 'for we have [>1] (.) (.) (.) SSG SLH and SGM (.) (.) erm: ok what what do y(you) what is your opin(opinion) what is your opinion on (.) erm at the moment (.) (.) S(SSG) er SSG about (.) (.) why wh(why) why cigarette ad(advertisements) advertisements should continue. *SX4: <[^ com: whisper] SSG> [<1]. *SSG: [^ com: indrawn breath] erm: personally I think considering erm: (.) (.) (.) considering the TV publicity you just said that's stopped (.) but (.) I think it's sort of s(sx) been replaced by erm (.) an equally agr(agressive) aggressive campaign on erm anti_smoking now [>1] erm: (.) (.) there's actually I'm(I'm) I'm not su(sure) (.) I wouldn't say I'm either for or against the advertising erm concerning TV erm: (.) because (.) (.) I think the fact (.) the fact that erm: (.) (.) that smoking exists is(is) the fact is so established now that ev(evx) that erm (.) (.) if publicity 'was stopped erm: if all advertising was (.) erm: banned then (.) (.) erm: (.) I think that the figures of smoking would still exi(exist) would still continue to rise [>2] and erm (.) the problem'd still be as prevalent as (.) as if there (.) as if there still 'was advertising so concerning that (.) (.) erm: (.) (.) (.) and no (.) from an en(enx) e(economic) economic(economical) er: economical point of view I'd say that erm: definitely the pu(publicity) publicity for (.) smoking (.) I'd say I was 'for it in that sense (.) if you take erm: (.) (.) for example s(sx) like Formula One (.) erm (.) if they were to take away [>3] (.) (.) erm: advertising from that you see it all over the cars an (.) (.) it's plastered everywhere so they (.) erm: (.) they make millions from that so if that was taken away then (.) erm: (.) (.) that would su(sux) er that would suffer greatly (.) erm: equally (.) you get (.) (.) sort of not very high profile sport say like the Mc World Darts Championships (.) that's their main sponsor if that was taken away then (.) equally that would erm (.) (.) [^ com: clears throat] erm: (.) that probably wouldn't happen anymore [>4] (.) so from an ec(economical) er economical poi(point) er point of view then I'd I'd say I was 'for the (.) advertising. *SAN: [<1]. *SAN: [<2]. *SAN: [<3]. *SAN: [<4]. *SAN: hm and how would you counteract that SSL . *SSL: [^ com: indrawn breath] I'd say [^ com: SSG clears his throat] with the fact that sixty thousand people die a year (.) erm: I don't see the reason for advertising for something (.) that actually 'does kill (.) (.) I'm completely against it . *SAN: ok so the way you see it is that because s:moking has negative effects erm it shouldn't be advertised and encourage (.) more people to smoke [>]. *SSL: [<]. *SAN: (ok/alright) . *SSL: and I 'do believe it 'does encourage people to start smoking (.) as well as it encourages people to 'continue smoking (.) erm (.) [^ com: suspended] [^ gui: P] . *SGM: I don't think the: adverts erm: on TV or on the billboards encourage people to smoke [^ com: SSG clears his throat] because they're 'aimed at like (.) 'older people (.) like if you look lu(lux, look) small kids wouldn't (.) think of that as being cool . *SSL: I don't know you know the Malboro one with this good_looking man sitting smoking his Malboros I think (.) maybe some girls or (.) (.) 'boys 'do think (.) that looks cool I'm [>] [^ com: laugh] . *SSG: [<] the majority of adverts (.) are 'very abstract (so/say) if you take things like Silk Cut (.) (.) just as an example I mean (.) the (.) you just get (.) (.) what(what) I think f(for) to most (.) erm: say sixteen year olds young people it'd be just (.) random images that they can't connect (.) so s (.) talk about billboards for example they can't (.) there's no re(rex) way unless erm: (.) (.) if the two images were there separately you couldn't connect (.) why they were there [>1] so in that sense I think erm: (.) it's obviously aimed (.) er: those (.) the majority of adverts are aimed at the erm (.) more mature market (.) and erm: (.) I don't think the young people'd be susceptible to that to that sort of campaign. *SAN: [<1]. *SAN: right so you're saying that because it's 'aimed at the (.) adult market [>1] it shouldn't (.) be (.) stopped because the adult market isn't necessarily going to change their mind about [>]. *SSG: [<1]. *SSG: [<]. *SLH: I think if someone's going to smoke they would smoke anyway regardless if there was er an advert or not: [>1] [>2] erm if th(the) adverts are stopped (.) then: I think it would become cooler [^ com: SSG coughs] to smoke and so therefore more people would smoke because if it's not (.) [^ com: indrawn breath] 'talked about and if it's tried t (.) people try and (.) erm:. *SSG: [<1]. *SAN: [<2]. *SSL: [^ gui: startFalse] oh I think [>]. *SLH: [<] from public i(image) image then it becomes 'cooler to smoke . *SAN: [<] . *SSL: [>] group of people think like that (.) 'some people think (.) oh my god it's 'really not acceptable to smoke (.) I can't do that . *SLH: but if your parents don't smoke and your grandparents po(pox) don't smoke you're not likely just smoke just just xxx xxx it's usually because the way (.) you're brought up or the way people around you 'act so therefore it's not around you 'anyway you're not likely to smoke just because you see an advert on TV [>1] it's more a result of that your 'upbringing or environment. *SSG: [<1]. *SAN: well what do you think about the current new policy of cigarette erm like cigarette packaging (in/and) advertising because I mean 'before it (.) smoking kills was just a small sort of little (.) small font sort of quite fancily written smoking kills but now they've changed it to quite a large sticker well it's not even a sticker it's 'on the actual pack and it says like in large font smoking kills do you think that (.) policy is going to change the behaviour of smokers at the moment or (.) (.) maybe 'deter young people from smoking [^ com: more faintly] does anyone have any opinions about that . *SSL: I hope so [^ com: laughs] . *SGM: no way at all because like erm in 'Canada they have even worse (.) cigarette advertising they have like a 'lung or like a 'baby dead because of it and it's like worse than the ones we have here [>1] and that doesn't make people stop smoking there's still a lot of young people smoking out there (.) and it's much worse than the things we have on our packets of cigarettes here. *SAN: [<1]. *SSG: in fact there's a danger of being so (.) much drummed into us that we just seem (.) (.) we don't seem to (.) (.) [^ com: suspended] [^ gui: P] . *SGM: become immune to it . *SSG: yeah we become yeah become immune to it and just (.) those sort of warnings don't work anymore people just buy it anyway [>1] so. *SAN: [<1]. *SAN: well the fact is smoking does have harmful harmful effects it causes lung cancer car(cancer) cancer of the lip cancer of the tongue: all sorts of sort of s(sort) nasty side effects so what do you think 'can be done to sort of stop this (.) sort of self_poisoning of people or do you think it's (.) maybe your(your) basic human right to be able to smoke and [>]. *SSL: < it's a process> [<] that would take (.) a long time it would take years it would take (.) years to get [^ com: SSG coughs] people to accept the fact that (.) well to think about the fact that it's not acceptable to smoke in society [>1] (.) and I mean it 'is accepted and: (.) not many people go oh my god you're a smoker (.) get out of my life [>2] you know [>3] it is a thing that everyone (.) well a lot of people do and it takes a 'long time to get people to adapt thos(those) to the thought that (.) it's not a good thing (.) like it's taken (.) (.) again it's taken years in America (.) to do this but they all (.) 'do see it as a 'really really bad thing (.) and it's you can't yo(you) if you go to a restaurant in America if you go (.) 'any(any) well (.) anywhere public really you can't you're not allowed to smoke and (.) (.) it's not only the smokers that b (.) do benefit from this I'd say it's also the non_smokers because they don't actually get these (.) side effects from (.) well passively smoking (.) a (.) [^ com: suspended] [^ gui: P]. *SAN: [<1]. *SAN: [<2]. *SAN: [<3]. *SAN: so do you think that's the way for England then to sort of (.) 'deter [^ com: SSG coughs] deter well (.) yeah stop smoking to to: stop stop it in public areas and (.) restaurants for example [>1] because at the moment we generally have a sort of smoking and no poli(policy) smoking policy sides (.) of restaurants and that sort of thing so do you think (.) to 'ban it 'totally in restaurants would (.) and in public places would just slowly (.) [>] [^ com: suspended] [^ gui: P]. *SSL: [<1]. *SSL: [<] over time that would definitely help . *SLH: yeah you [>1] do it 'immediately because it would just (.) have a (.) counter_effect you'd have to (.) bring it in gradually and then it should take [>2] a 'lot of time. *SAN: [<1]. *SSL: [<2]. *SSG: hm . *SAN: hm . *SSL: it would do but eventually it 'would be the solution (.) I think (.) (.) to a lot of the people that start smoking wouldn't stop (.) (.) (.) if it's an(an) (.) a(ax) (.) illegal thing to smoke in the streets then where do (.) thirteen year old (.) people go and smoke their first cigarette (.) to [>1] from the parents (.) sort of things like that. *SAN: [<1]. *SAN: I see your point about erm soc(social) social sort of acceptance because a lo(lot) quite a lot of my friends when we were younger d(did) none of us 'did smoke and two of them di(did) like sort of (.) in the past year started smoking and no (.) one's bl(blinked) sort of blinked an eyelid at it [>1] I think it maybe it's something that with age that (.) [^ com: catches her breath] you accept a lot more I think if you're younger and you're smoking it's either seen as very cool or very naughty isn't it. *SSL: [<1]. *SSL: it is [>1] the sort of thing if you if you try and get into a club and you know that you're not (.) going to get in then (.) people try and light a cigarette to look a little bit [>2] and look a little bit cooler and they might get let in then [^ com: laughs]. *SAN: [<1]. *SAN: [<2]. *SSG: xxx . *SSL: you know little things like that . *SSL: so: . *SLH: then again there's a risk if yo(you) if you 'do erm: prevent it from being public then yo(you) [^ com: SSG coughs] there's a risk it will go underground and they'll be introduced to more ha(harder) harder drugs [>1] at the same time and then alcohol becomes a hard drug and then the cycle just comes round 'again and it gets [>]. *SAN: [<1]. *SAN: [<] just be transferred to another [>1] that's true. *SLH: [<1]. *SSG: the fact that it's taboo'd be another (.) erm attraction to it (.) I think (.) the same way as drugs although that that's always been (.) (.) they've always been illegal (.) the fact that (.) there's(there's) m(more) more element of danger [>1] (.) more taboo added to it then [^ com: suspended] [^ gui: P]. *SAN: [<1]. *SAN: I suppose you could s(sort) sort of compare and contrast it with (.) the legalisation of cannabis [>1] also can't you because (.) there's discussions like [^ com: SX4 coughs] that as well where there's (.) 'des(desx) erm (.) legalising it would would (.) make 'more people smoke or whether it'd just encourage people [>2] to go on to harder drugs I suppose there's s:(stuff) erm stuff in (.) (adverts) and cigarettes that could (.) equally [>4] go [>5] (.) so it's (.) (.) maybe about acces(accessing) assessing the way the society is at the moment and (.) [^ com: SSG coughs] (discussing) the general opinion of it and (.) maybe (.) targeting different 'age groups I think perhaps and (.) seeing what what it'd be possible (.) xxx xxx (concerns) (.) because I'm sure the s:ixty thousand people who die a year that that's (.) it's also like you said it's got (.) it's got erm economic effects such as (.) you know that that for exam(example) example that advertising may (.) 'support these sports but then the money that's spent on the national [>3] system sort of (.) paying to treat these people who (.) have got smoking related diseases and you can't just turn around and say oh no you smoked so: we won't give you that treatment so (.) it's a (.) it really is about sort of assessing (.) how far do you go with (.) this policy. *SLH: [<1]. *SLH: [<2]. *SSG: [<3]. *SLH: [<4]. *SSL: [<5]. *SAN: hm . *SAN: do you think it'l(it'll) erm advertising (.) sort of th(the) the right to see adverts and and to sort of (.) 'have 'everything exposed to you as a public as a sort of (.) human liberty (.) do you see it(it) do yo(you) would you see it(it) would you see it as a (.) as a sort of (.) (.) a suppression of your human (.) human rights to for smoking (.) to be (.) for sm(smoking) adv(adverts) adverts for smoking to be stopped . *SGM: to be stopped . *SAN: yeah . *SGM: er: yeah I think so [>1] I definitely do yeah [^ com: nervous exhalation]. *SAN: [<1]. *SAN: anyone else no got different opinions on that or . @Comment: long silence *SAN: or do you not see it as sort of interfering with your basic liberties it's just something if it doesn't apply to you then (.) er it's hm you don't really think about it . *SSL: [^ com: feebly] I don't know (.) (.) (.) (.) [^ com: small laugh exhalation] I want to say something but I don't know what . @Comment: several sympathetic giggles *SAN: quite a difficult question . *SSL: [^ com: still feebly] yeah . *SAN: erm according to a (.) there's a (.) sort of survey in France that where erm (.) people were asked to if cigarettes should be treated like other drugs er: I thi(this) sort of erm (.) (.) banned (.) legally and: sixty three point eight peo(people) per cent of people said yes and(and) and thirty six point nine (.) per cent of people said (.) erm there' s thirty six point two sorry of peo(people) per cent of people said no (.) so that shows quite I think (.) maybe it's a (.) point of view that's (.) amongst the French at the moment because (.) (.) wou(would) would you say tha(that) that would trans(translate) translate sort of across (.) the border or would you say [>1] (.) (.) those figures would be similar in this country or [^ com: suspended] [^ gui: P]. *SGM: <[^ gui: startFalse] o(ox) [^ gui: endFalse]> [<1]. *SGM: they're quite surprising those figures [>]. *SAN: [<] [>]. *SLH: [<] reason those figures ar(are) because the programme that we were watching was a debate about (.) erm tobacco (.) and: people who were watching it would probably be people who were against it and trying to find out what could happen in the future about the laws and things therefore (.) the people watching would be 'against [>1] and would w(wx) and want to treat them like other drugs whereas the rest erm that's why there's a small amount of people (.) who thi(think) don't think they would be but I think if you actually did a survey I think (.) it'd be fifty fifty really. *SAN: [<1]. *SAN: hm . *SAN: I mean I'm not a smoker but I'm not sort of (.) (.) (.) I accept it socially I mean if my f(friend) if I've got a friend who's smoking I'll go and sit in the s(smoking) smoking section with her and that sort of thing but (.) I may(maybe) I do maybe thi(this) I d(do) I do realise that there's: sort of the illnesses that come about [^ com: SSG clears throat] through smoking it's quite a (.) big problem and needs to be (.) I think addressed or sort of (.) try to be addressed in some way I think that's what they're trying to do with the (.) (.) sort of banning the 'publicity on that isn't that just (.) . *SGM: [^ gui: startFalse] yeah [>]. *SAN: [^ gui: TCDFS] [>] (.) making it giving it less exposure so . *SGM: erm I don't think publicity works as I said before the thing that does work is erm (.) 'knowing someone who has died from a smoking (.) related disease like I know someone who's 'at the moment has throat cancer [>1] 'really made me think [>2] (.) about it and makes me think every time you have a cigarette gosh you know this could be like (.) give me some [^ com: SSG clears throat] sort of disease but I think that's what really makes you think not the publicity. *SAN: [<1]. *SAN: [<2]. *SAN: right (.) ok so (.) what do you think of the question of more education in schools perhaps or (.) [^ com: suspended] [^ gui: P] . *SGM: about smoking . *SAN: yeah about the dangers would you think that would necessarily work . *SGM: no . *SAN: no . *SGM: no not at all . *SLH: I think it's important though you have to (.) they have to be aware of what exactly what they're going [>1] and then they make the choice. *SAN: [<1]. *SSL: I don't I don't agree with that because I remember (.) erm in our school (.) we had (.) a policeman coming up talking to us about drugs I know it's drugs not cigarettes but [^ com: indrawn breath] he was saying some really really (.) horrifying stories and we all got really scared and we were talking about it for about a 'week after this and like oh my god I'm'never going to drugs like so I think it really 'does make people think about it and if you had like (.) a story like that but about cigarettes (.) (.) or maybe combine it with drugs or something it (.) doe(does) well (.) you know you get you get an impression from it and you sort of start thinking about it and you (.) talk about it with your friends and all that [>1] (.) I think we were about thirteen or fourteen or something. *SAN: [<1]. *SAN: I had very little sort of erm (.) (.) education about cigarettes and that I think 'one science lesson we got we erm I think we lit a cigarette and we showed that (.) its effect on a piece of cotton wool and that cotton [>1] was supposed to represent your lung but I don't think sort of that's I think that must have been round the age of eleven which isn't neces [>2] the starting age of cigarettes I don't think that's 'enough I mean that was all it was really we wrote it up that (.) you know the cigarette turned yellow I mean sorry the cotton [>3] turned yellow (.) obviously had bad effects but I I think it was maybe a practical way but just (.) (.) far too un [>4] (.) (.) far too unattached I think. *SSG: [<1]. *SGM: [<2]. *SX4: [<3]. *SLH: [<4]. *SLH: I think maybe it should start a younger age like in primary school so you grow up forming an opinion of it so when you're about fifteen sixteen and maybe exposed to it then (.) you have more you can make a valid choice and wha(what) like for and against it [>1] and: [^ com: suspended] [^ gui: P]. *SAN: [<1]. *SGM: but do you think that really works because I think a lot of young children are very very against smoking [>1] [>2] (.) and especially if their parents are smokers I know I was very against it. *SAN: [<1]. *SSG: [<2]. *SAN: <[^ gui: SIM] right> [<] . *SLH: <[^ gui: SIM] yes> [<] because you're exposed to it but if you didn(didn't) if you grew up in a family where it wasn't around you ever (.) then you would n(know) know very little about it so: the earlier it (.) the education starts the better . *SAN: I think when you're young it is (.) quite a taboo thing though isn't it it's [>1] [>2] I don't know quite a lot of (.) the things that st(stx) then a bit later become cool in adolescence are just <'totally> [>3] taboo when you're [>4] aren't they (.) (.) I mean I was a(ax) when I was: first started secondary school I had (.) I think about three friends who were s(smokers) who were smokers already and I was I I was quite horrified by that and (.) (.) (.) yeah I didn't find them cool at all and (.) [^ com: suspended] [^ gui: P]. *SGM: [<1]. *SLH: [<2]. *SGM: [<3]. *SLH: [<4]. *SSG: I think although there is the element of addiction it's a lot like a 'fashion as well I mean (.) erm (.) (.) so a group of my friends erm: (.) so there's some who (.) 'd started smoking at (.) I don't know s:i(sixteen) fifteen or sixteen and some who just (.) who'd stopped but that the addiction element aside [>1] erm: (.) so som (.) some just carried on some stopped I mean they thought in a way they grew out of it (.) but again there's als(also) there's (.) always a big erm: (.) element of peer pressure it's a(ax) uh (.) it's a big cause amongst young people as well [>2] I mean (.) (.) it's ar(around) up at(at) erm (.) around that time when (.) er when there is the education the education of anti_smoking you had erm (.) (.) round about (.) the age of fourteen fifteen erm (.) [^ com: tongue/lips/swallow noise] I can remember this s(sx) was in er: Upper School and er: (.) a couple of my friends started smoking and then (.) it's just er: (.) and now most of them 'do from(from) in fact (.) from my (.) main group of friends I could I think I'm the only one who doesn't [>3] (.) so (.) it's definitely (.) a 'fashion and there's (.) a big element of peer pressure within it. *SAN: [<1]. *SAN: [<2]. *SAN: [<3]. *SAN: I think this a s(sx) erm (.) this talk of fashion is quite interesting because I mean (.) in I think it was in the 'fifties and smoking companies 'campaigned sort of directly (.) sort of advertised towards erm sort of focused their advertising on on women telling them that erm (.) smoking could help them lose weight and that sort of thing and it became very 'fashionable that at that time didn't it and then there's a lot of(of) we've seen a lot of side_effects 'from that point of view from (.) that age group who are now (.) [>]. *SSG: [<] dream of saying that these days would you I mean you had people (.) erm <(.) (.) you had> [>]. *SSL: [^ gui: INTP] [<] 'know the side effects back then [^ gui: INTPclose] . *SAN: <[^ gui: SIM] yeah> [<] . *SSG: <[^ gui: SIM] yeah> [<]. *SSG: it's like I mean you had you had film stars you know (.) looking cool and sm(smoking) either smoking cigars or cigarettes [>1] (.) these days y(you) you w(would) you would 'never see someone like George Clooney just you know in a cigarette advert (.) promoting it. *SAN: [<1]. @Comment: general agreement *SAN: so it's become a 'different type of [>1] now hasn't it it's not a fs (.) not necessarily a sort of (.) (.) (.) 'fashionably cool but er (.) (.) I don't know [^ com: SSG cough] [^ com: very quietly] not sure how to xxx. *SSG: [<1]. *SAN: erm . *SAN: what else can we say . *SAN: that's it really I think we can end it there [>1] (.) quite a good conversation. *SX4: [<1]. *SX4: thank you . *SSG: ok . @Comment: 23.0 @End